{"id":499,"date":"2025-03-12T13:41:19","date_gmt":"2025-03-12T18:41:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/?p=499"},"modified":"2025-03-12T13:41:19","modified_gmt":"2025-03-12T18:41:19","slug":"how-cdr-can-cross-the-chasm-part-2-of-2-climagination-with-jason-grillo","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/2025\/03\/12\/how-cdr-can-cross-the-chasm-part-2-of-2-climagination-with-jason-grillo\/","title":{"rendered":"How CDR can cross \u2018The Chasm\u2019 (Part 2 of 2) \u2013 Climagination with Jason Grillo"},"content":{"rendered":"<figure id=\"attachment_500\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-500\" style=\"width: 512px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-500\" src=\"http:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2025\/03\/unnamed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"512\" height=\"301\" srcset=\"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2025\/03\/unnamed.jpg 512w, https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2025\/03\/unnamed-300x176.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 512px) 100vw, 512px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-500\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><span style=\"font-size: 8pt\">Image by Pete Linforth from Pixabay<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p style=\"text-align: center\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Getting to a mainstream market is possible in carbon removal; here\u2019s some thoughts on how<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i>\u201cA bit of advice given to a young Native American at the time of his initiation:\u00a0<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b><i>\u2018As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm.\u00a0<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b><i>Jump.\u00a0<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b><i>It is not as wide as you think.\u201d<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b><i>\u2015 Joseph Campbell<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Welcome back! I\u2019m writing this as a companion post to <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/climagination.substack.com\/p\/cdr-at-the-chasm-part-1-of-2\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part 1<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> where I proposed that CDR is at a \u2018chasm\u2019 point between an early market and a more mainstream class of customer. In this post (Part 2 of 2), I will offer some suggestions on how a carbon removal project developer might make that transition. Once again, I\u2019ll adapt key principles from Geoffrey Moore\u2019s <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream\/dp\/0062292986\/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Crossing the Chasm<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to durable carbon removal, this time talking about specific actions which early stage companies can take that might yield success.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">As a reminder, here is a graphic of Moore\u2019s technology adoption lifecycle curve:<\/span><\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_495\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-495\" style=\"width: 512px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-495\" src=\"http:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2025\/02\/unnamed.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"512\" height=\"242\" srcset=\"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2025\/02\/unnamed.png 512w, https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2025\/02\/unnamed-300x142.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 512px) 100vw, 512px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-495\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><span style=\"font-size: 8pt\">Image: https:\/\/smashfly.wordpress.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/08\/crossing-the-chas.jpg<\/span><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">And a shorthand reminder of the three segments most in play for CDR now:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n<ol>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n<ol>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Enthusiasts (AKA Innovators) who are most interested in technology for technology\u2019s sake.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Visionary customers who want to be the first to implement new solutions as the start of revolutionizing the way businesses operate.<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pragmatists who are Mainstream customers less interested in being the first to lead, desiring lower risk products at higher volume, with more sensitivity on price.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because these Mainstream customers are qualitatively quite different in their needs from Early Adopters, succeeding with that group is akin to bridging a marketing Chasm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Achieving product adoption in this third, Pragmatist group requires a different set of tools compared to the first two. To that end, based on my reading of Moore\u2019s principles here are some strategies that I have adapted to durable CDR.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">A: Target a segment of customers, not a whole market.\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Moore talks a bit about finding a market larger enough to be A) financially meaningful but B) small enough that a company can achieve at least 50% of market share among those customers. Pragmatist customers are seeking \u2018the market leader\u2019 no matter what that market might be &#8211; this group might be geographically defined, or psychographically defined, but the critical point is to <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">define a small enough segment that you can dominate while still making meaningful financial gains.\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many companies fail by trying to define their market too broadly: \u201cWe\u2019ll target all of forestry with our innovative CDR solution!\u201d is, for a startup, an impossible task. Venture investors do like a 10-year \u2018hockey stick\u2019 growth curve showing how the company (and its investors) could be zillionaires\u2026in 2037; but they also really like a startup who shows how the initial, well-defined, smaller market segment will get the company through the next 2-3 years. Defining and dominating a tiny segment of the market and getting your business started among mainstream customers in that group is a way to win.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Examples: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/carbicrete.com\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Carbicrete<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is manufacturing cast concrete pieces using CO2 as a feedstock. It would be one thing if they were to target \u201call concrete producers\u201d &#8211; a daunting task. Rather, they fixate on a specific starting point that would likely yield success, and then build from that initial group of customers in which the solution you provide is the dominant one.\u00a0 Example 2: <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/goal300\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Goal300<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is targeting Christmas Tree farms in the Pacific Northwest as customers who would apply enhanced rock weathering to soils. It\u2019s a specific type of customer, who has a customized set of needs, but large enough to get the business started to bridge later to a more mainstream market.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Generating reference customers through word of mouth is the goal here. One mainstream Pragmatist customer will talk to other Pragmatist customers about their product experience: as they are more risk averse relative to Visionary customers, they value the assurance of having another person\u2019s opinion on a product before buying it. Cast concrete purchasers who speak to other cast concrete purchasers. Christmas Tree farmers who talk to other Christmas Tree farmers in a particular region.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Talk to a variety of customers in different segments when thinking through which one to target. And also listen for the needs of various internal stakeholders within that customer company (more on this coming up in Part \u2018B\u2019 below!).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">A great way for such customer discovery is to attend the industry conference for that particular customer segment! Learn who they talk to, and how they relate to each other, and what their common needs are. Because insofar as a market exists, it moves at the speed of word of mouth from reference customer to reference customer, building momentum for success among the first mainstream segment to target, so that the product can get adopted by other segments after establishing itself as the market leader in that initial \u2018beachhead\u2019 segment.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">B: Figure out how to satisfy three crucial stakeholder roles in your target customer.\u00a0<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those influencers within the customer entity, per Moore, are:<\/span><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n<ol>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n<ol>\n<li><b>The end-user<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">: who uses the product you sell<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>The technical buyer<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">: who evaluates the qualifications of your product<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>The economic buyer<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">: who provides the financial resource to pay for the product<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">To illustrate, I\u2019ll use the best non-climate example from my professional experience in pharmaceuticals:<\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n<ul>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">The <\/span><b>end-user<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is the patient, who uses the product to combat a disease<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">The <\/span><b>technical buyer <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">would be the physician prescribing the pharmaceutical, based on their expert evaluation of the attributes of the product<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400\">The <b style=\"font-size: 1rem\">economic buyer<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is the private or government insurance company &#8211; a \u2018Payer\u2019 in pharma industry terms &#8211; or in some cases the patient themself who pays for the pharmaceutical intervention.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">For durable CDR companies in a voluntary carbon market, the end user could be the corporate sustainability professional who uses the carbon removal credit to report on the Net Zero goal achieved through offsetting (<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/climagination.substack.com\/p\/bottled-up-in-a-vcm-jam-try-insetting\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">or insetting<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">). The carbon removal purchase itself serves a useful purpose to that individual. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">The technical evaluator could be an outside consultancy or internal group of technical people hired for the purpose of understanding the project(s) in play. Unlike pharmaceuticals, there\u2019s no state-mandated licensure for prescribing CDR tonnage! A select few companies have large numbers of in-house technical staff who evaluate CDR projects as they come in. Most mainstream companies will not have these resources, and as such would rely on an intermediary, such as a marketplace, broker, or consultancy to provide that technical diligence.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">The economic buyer is typically the Finance department, where price for tonnage would be paramount relative to other projects that are recommended by the sustainability department &#8211; and external or internal evaluation teams. As I <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/climagination.substack.com\/p\/is-winter-coming\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">wrote previously,<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> one way to convince a CFO is to demonstrate tangible economic value by pursuing the carbon removal project. Bundling the CDR credit through insetting with a physical product, or otherwise selling the physical product of carbon removing activity alongside a separate unbundled offset represents a revenue-generating prospect for the CDR company who can sell a physical product while removing excess atmospheric greenhouse gas. Note that there are many different types of projects, and not just offset projects, that the end-users and technical buyers would recommend. So valorizing the ROI is a pathway to be persuasive to the economic buyer audience, per <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cdr.fyi\/blog\/2025-cdr-market-survey-report\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">CDR.FYI\u2019s 2025 Market Survey<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u00b9<\/span><\/p>\n<p><i style=\"font-size: 1rem\">C. Market the whole product, not just the core product<\/i><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">An early stage Visionary buyer typically has performance expectations for the core product itself, and is willing to forego the supportive services that would make the purchase easier to handle. Pragmatist customers\u2019 view is the opposite: they need surrounding product or service offerings that make the purchase easy to integrate into their existing business.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a Pragmatic class of CDR customers this could mean: insurance services, credit ratings, or even marketing materials that enable the sustainability office to feature the project in an ESG report.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">In particular, one <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">big<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> concern among Pragmatist customers is that the CDR supplier will go out of business, leaving them with an unsupported amount of CDR tons that they would have to answer questions about. Demonstrating post-sale customer support and contingencies would address this risk.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Selling a \u2018whole product\u2019 could also mean working with a broker or other intermediary who would package the durable CDR credit with other credit types, such as lower priced nature-based carbon removal, avoidance\/REDD+\/Renewable Energy offsets, or industrial waste gas destruction credits. That would lower the <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">average<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> price per ton of the entire \u2018market basket\u2019 while providing different qualities of offset to the buyer. Rather than competing for a vanishingly small attention span for CDR, the offset would be considered alongside other types of projects on offer for a Sustainability office.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">So how can a CDR project developer start to make the leap?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">While these three tactical suggestions could be useful for durable CDR companies to make inroads into a market of Pragmatists, the greater issue could be making the <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">internal<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> leap of faith required to adjust to these market forces.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">The thinking surrounding pursuit of an early stage customer &#8211; heaving a technically less polished, core product over a RFP Visionary transom and, well, praying &#8211; is not a strategy that would work to gain market traction among Pragmatists. Adjusting one\u2019s own approach to <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">understand<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the mindset of the mainstream customer, respect their needs and motivations, and meeting them where <\/span><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">they<\/span><\/i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> are at will be the way to success. That\u2019s why identifying that one small niche of a Pragmatist market is so important.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oftentimes in other industries this has meant that the visionary startup founder does not have the skills or interest to speak on equal terms to an otherwise risk-averse customer. Visionaries are great at speaking with other visionaries; pragmatists with pragmatists. So it follows that bringing in new talent to meet broader mainstream needs might have the uncomfortable task of replacing a founder for the sake of company survival.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Getting across a Chasm is not an easy task. But, a necessary one in order for an early stage company to achieve its potential. In carbon removal the results can be worldchanging, provided the durable CDR company has the right tools and, more importantly, internal mindset to adjust and make the leap. It\u2019s a challenge to be sure but one that is possible to achieve.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><i>Jason Grillo is the Principal of <\/i><\/b><a href=\"http:\/\/www.earthlight.io\"><b><i>Earthlight Enterprises<\/i><\/b><\/a><b><i> marketing consultancy, Co-Founded AirMiners, and is a voluntary contributor to CDR.FYI. The opinions expressed in this writing are the author\u2019s own and do not reflect the position of any employer or associated organization.<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n<p>\u00b9<span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Disclosure: I was a voluntary contributor to help that effort.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Getting to a mainstream market is possible in carbon removal; here\u2019s some thoughts on how \u201cA bit of advice given to a young Native American at the time of his initiation:\u00a0 \u2018As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm.\u00a0 Jump.\u00a0 It is not as wide as you think.\u201d \u2015 Joseph &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/2025\/03\/12\/how-cdr-can-cross-the-chasm-part-2-of-2-climagination-with-jason-grillo\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;How CDR can cross \u2018The Chasm\u2019 (Part 2 of 2) \u2013 Climagination with Jason Grillo&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3,65],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-499","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-blog-post","category-climagination"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/499","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=499"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/499\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=499"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=499"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/research.american.edu\/carbonremoval\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=499"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}